loninappleton  Posted at 2022-10-12 00:41:27(115Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| Subject gives the question. I know my client supports Bittorrent 2.0 and wondered if that format will be available and if it adds any security. I know nothing about it to begin with. | |
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gibril Posted at 2023-04-06 13:32:05(89Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| maybe they will look into it. I guess there is some issue in libtorrent that is why it is not adopted widely | |
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| gibrilPosted at 2023-06-02 13:03:11(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| Libtorrent has released new version of 2.x series and should fix most of the issues that were plaguing it in the past. It also comes with the support of i2p - which is a welcome move. Now, I would like to know what MODS of TGx think about Hybrid torrents or V2 only torrents? Hoping for a good discussion on this now. | |
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RedBaron58  Posted at 2023-06-02 14:46:03(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| A large number of downloaders here use legacy torrent clients that will not support these new formats so it's unlikely to happen any time soon. | |
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| gibrilPosted at 2023-06-02 16:15:53(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| That is incorrect, to say the least. Irrespective of what torrent client a user uses as of June 2023, most of them are based on Libtorrent in one way or the other. If any downloader who uses any torrent client (tixati, qbittorent, deluge, biglybt, transmission & others etc) with libtorrent 2.x series - he/she automatically supports the Bittorent 2.0, whether they are aware of it or not. Rather, it should be rephrased as Legacy uploaders who use either seedboxes or older utorrent versions, they have an issue with supporting bittorrent 2.0 The limitation which I very well understand and respect. My suggestion or rather request is - atleast start an experimental program with only few uploaders, to check hybrid torrent uploading. And I am, not at all, saying to do it tomorrow - but rather have a healthy discussion about it, with major staff & uploaders involvement, as I had said in my earlier post too. | |
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| battlestarPosted at 2023-06-04 01:31:58(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| Not really - you are making the massive assumption that people always run the latest version of clients. Take Transmission for example, only v4 can deal with bt-2.0. I can tell you from simply viewing the peers that connect to me that most people still run v3 or even v2 versions. I myself still use 3.00, there is no reason for me to change to 4.03, so why would I ? There is also no incentive or reason for uploaders to create Bittorrent 2.0 torrents either. All they would be doing is restricting their own choice of client, and limiting who can download the torrent. Its just all-round pointless, everyone can use bt-1.0, it works just fine, and has for 20+ years, bt 2.0 was an answer to a problem that no one had. It was created six years ago now, and yet is still virtually used - because there just isnt a good reason for anyone to do so. Last edited by battlestar on 2023-06-04 01:32:21 | |
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| SoushkinBouderaPosted at 2023-06-04 10:54:38(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| qBittorrent has been supporting V2 for at least a year. I've been using qBittorrent to create my torrent files. When I tried to create torrents using V2 or Hybrid they just didn't work so I've switched back to V1. I'll be using that until V2/Hybrid or a lot more common. It isn't very useful at the moment. Not for me, at least. But someone else might have better experiences with it. =) | |
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| gibrilPosted at 2023-06-04 17:33:33(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| In Hybrid mode - you can connect to both new & old swarms, i.e., any newest up-to-date or older versions of any torrent client. I think you should read the paper on Bittorrent v2 on libtorrent website. It helps in, enforcing a major TGx site rule - detagging & duplication. I have been torrent user for decades & I have seen many uploaders from many websites - bitch, moan and cry about - people copying their torrents & posting it as their own - so if a solution is there - then I think at least those users should use it. Swarm Merging!! meaning - if a tv series episode has 2 different torrents - and one of the uploaders stops seeding it - then you can still complete your download by merging it with another torrent of the same TV series - of course same characteristics (episode name, episode number, episode size) needs to be fulfilled. BiglyBT torrent client has this feature & now all torrent clients based on v2 can now do it, too. Merkle hash trees - meaning - less size of torrent, less latency at the beginning & less corruption of data & hash fail rate. No one used v2 for past 6 years - because apart from BiglyBT - no torrent client ever implemented v2. It is just that after covid when everyone was in homes that there was an immense boom in FOSS volunteering work. Heck, even BiglyBT implementation was done in October 2020. The original thesis of v2 is from 2008 And YES. I agree v1 has been working for 2 decades non-stop, for which, all of us are thankful. But, that does not mean we should not try new technology. | |
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| gibrilPosted at 2023-06-04 17:38:06(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| Yes, as I had said in my earlier post, too. Old version had too many bugs that is why it was not popular. But now both the libtorrent & qbittorent, both have released new updates - try it & tell us if you think it has less bugs than older version. | |
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| battlestarPosted at 2023-06-05 02:52:06(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| No one in their right mind should use "hybrid mode". Its the worst thing ever - heres a v2 torrent, but we doubled it up with v1 information as well. Complete duplication - Why ? Well becasue they knew almost no one can [will] actually use v2 atm. I read all about v2 years ago, nothing has changed. Well firstly, that isnt swarm merging, its not really even torrent merging. All that v2 actually does is keep the pieces for files isolated - in other words, pieces dont cross files. [ It does that by using padding files, which actually increases the overall size of the torrent, and adds a bunch of useless .pad files ]. Nice claim - but in reality, not really. You could still detag torrents, and/or duplicate them. Since (as above) v2 keeps files separated, identical files will have the same internal hash in different torrents, which is what that claim is based on, but unless there is automated, file level checking of every torrent on site, its really of no help. No site has that level of checking. Duplication checking is done visually on name/size. Yep, I agree the first bit is generally correct, a pure v2 torrent file would generally be smaller than a v1 - esp one with lots of files since v2 uses a better way to store the directory tree [somthing you didnt mention]. However, .torrent file sizes have never been an issue for 99% of people (and large ones are usually a failure of the creator to use a proper piece size). The "less latency" is only relevant to people who use magnet links (The info metadata is smaller, so in theory, can be transferred quicker). I'm sure the majority here download the torrent file, and even those that use magnet links, your unlikely to notice the difference unless the metadata is huge, and your net speed is not great. You usually spend more time finding and connecting to a peer to get the metadata, rather than actually downloading it. The last bit - "less corruption of data & hash fail rate" - is just not true, data corruption [which causes hash failure] is caused by actual transfer problems between peers, the format of the torrent file has zero control over that. However, when corruption does occur, v2 generally doesnt need to fetch the whole piece again, just a subset (the failed block or blocks). That can be an advantage on torrents with large piece sizes. That said, corruption is much rarer these days. Change for the sake of change is not a great idea. Yes, pure v2 does have some advantages, but they are not huge advantages [and hybrid is just evil, to be avoided] - the advantages are not enough to drive everyone away from their v1 torrents. I'm sure it will eventually take over, but no one is in a rush. TBH, I feel like you have just read things people have posted, and copied it here without really understanding, apologies if thats not true, but thats the impression I get from the misinformation you have. | |
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| gibrilPosted at 2023-06-05 09:43:09(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| Hybrid was done so as to help transition phase from v1 to v2. Transition phase & backward compatibility is an important part of any technological shift. You may personally feel like it, but your personal contempt for v2, does not make it worst thing ever. And, also it solves the issue you yourself raised of uploaders cutting off their target audience. What is it then? Just saying anything for the sake of saying. lol As for PAD files - yes there are implicit PAD files with v2. But that is the nature of the technology - I also wish it does not exist - but reading from libtorrent material, they cannot do it without alignment & thus PAD will occur. This is not my personal claim but exact words of the libtorrent document. "This addresses a long-standing wish to more easily identify duplicate files, or finding multiple sources for files, across swarms." And yes, I understand people will still duplicate & detag. And Yes, I do agree that piracy websites not having deep checking capabilities - and frankly - it is a great thing. Last thing we need is for piracy websites to act like a government. I did mention it & it is written there in coloured letters - Merkel Hash Trees. LOL be consistent - why deny corruption in first place and then go on to say - yes it exists but is very rare. This I agree with completely and therefore, that is the reason we are having a discussion about this on TGx forum. | |
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| EVILTEEN777Posted at 2023-06-05 10:44:17(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| In Short: If it Ain't Broke, Don't Fix it   | |
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| battlestarPosted at 2023-06-06 00:16:21(81Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| Yep, I already figured out thats the basis of you post(s). You are reading & quoting a document I am not convinced you fully understand. With that in mind, I cant be bothered to keep going with this - however, a couple of things I will answer. Simply quoting a phrase you read means nothing, hash trees have many uses, you made no mention of what they were used for in v2 (or why). It appears your reading has let you down, since I stated "data corruption [which causes hash failure] is caused by actual transfer problems between peers" - how does that "deny corruption in first place" ? Maybe go back and read it again  As I said, I really dont have the will (or time) to keep this up, I see nothing to gain from further 'discussion' here. Have a nice day. Indeed. | |
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| Rosy2955Posted at 2024-05-30 04:19:06(29Wks ago) Report Permalink URL | ||
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| First of all, guys be more respectful here, we all like torrent's, don't need to be agressive with the arguments. I believe that torrent v2 is a great alternative to IPFS, for big collections of small files it's awesome to have a hash for every file. Right now the shadowlibraries are using IPFS, and the experience is pretty nice for the end user, cause the gateways make everything easier... Maybe in the future the adoption of hybrid torrents will increase, I expect incredible things for the bittorrent v2. | |
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